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Michael Magoon's avatar

Regarding the definition in bold in Scope 3:

It is not too far from my definition, except the following:

"the development and application of ideas" assumes that ideas are what causes flourishing. I do not think a definition should have a cause built into it. We need a clear definition of the desired goal that does not assume what causes it. Cause and effect should be clearly separated, and progress is the effect.

"flourishing" I do now know what that means. I understand that many people want that to be the meaning of progress, but I think that is a mistake. I wrote why in this article:

https://frompovertytoprogress.substack.com/p/why-progress-is-not-human-flourishing

In general, I believe that Progress is about society, while Flourishing is about the Individual. I seriously doubt that there has ever been a society where everyone flourishes or does not flourish. Progress cannot make an individual flourish.

Whether a person flourishes in a given society will be to a large extent driven by the choices that an individual makes. One can live in a society that experiences Progress and make really bad choices that causes them not to flourish. Not living in a society that has Progress makes it harder to flourish, but one cannot be born into flourishing.

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Michael Magoon's avatar

I was very excited to see this article. Thanks for the shout out!

For those who are not aware, the series of articles that I wrote about Progress Studies starts on this page:

https://frompovertytoprogress.substack.com/p/what-is-progress-studies

It is currently about 13 articles now and counting. I would love to have feedback in the comments.

When I started writing this series, I was hoping other members of Progress Studies would join in with their own opinions. I think for us to become a serious field of intellectual inquiry, we need to decide on core issues early on. A failure to do so will really constrain our impact.

As you mentioned in your article, I am a strong proponent of a definition of progress that focuses on the material standard of living of the masses. I believe that a clear definition that can easily be measured makes it much easier to figure out what actually works.

I have no problem with other people focusing on, for example, on scientific progress or technological progress, or medical progress, as long as:

1) The author clearly defines the term. I try to constantly repeat my definition and in my first mention of the term "progress" I say "human material progress." If someone uses the term progress but is really only focused on technological progress, then that is liable to cause confusion which will undermine our ability to develop policies that work.

2) The author should not assume that, for example, scientific progress automatically leads to material benefits. I see this all the time. It should be an empirical question whether each increase in scientific knowledge actually has positive effects. The causality is not obvious.

If our goal is to develop policies and practices that advance progress, we need to be very careful about making assumption about causality. That is a huge risk if we dump all types of progress together and assume that they are all related.

3) In particular, we should be careful of trying to make "progress" as a synonym for everything good. I think that is a driving force in why many people want to expand the definition of progress. For example, "Love" is a wonderful thing and is necessary for human flourishing, but that does not mean that it has anything to do with progress.

I think many of those people are unconsciously trying to develop a new philosophy, religion, or ideology. I see Progress Studies as an applied Social Science, and I think that it is a mistake to try to push it to become more than that.

Any way, that is my take.

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